Canadian universities withdraw from Maclean's survey

Dal News Staff - August 14, 2006

The following is a letter that was sent to Maclean's magazine from university presidents across the country. It indicates their collective intention to withdraw from the magazine's annual university survey. Most of the country's leading research universities, including Dalhousie, are united in this action. The rationale for the decision is outlined below.

Also see:
  • Questions and Answers
  • Measuring Up: What university rankings do and don't tell us
    (Ottawa Citizen Op/Ed by David Naylor, President, University of Toronto)
  • PDF version of letter [208 Kb]

To: Dalhousie Community
From: Tom Traves
Re: Canadian Universities Withdraw from Maclean's Survey

I am circulating a letter from a group of Canadian university presidents that will be arriving at Maclean's magazine today indicating our collective intention to withdraw from the annual Maclean's university survey. Most of Canada's leading research universities are united in this action.

The rationale for this decision is clear in the letter, but it boils down to our objection to the magazine's insistence on ranking universities based on arbitrary and deficient methodology. For many years, I have made this same point when the survey results appear.

Maclean's provides a useful service in distributing detailed statistical information about different aspects of Canada's universities. However, when it lumps all these categories together into a single ranking, arbitrarily assigning more points to one category than another based on its own idiosyncratic judgment, it fundamentally misrepresents the character of every institution. For universities with a broad range of programs and degree options, such as Dalhousie, this is particularly objectionable.

As the letter makes clear, the universities involved certainly are willing to discuss amendments to the magazine's approach, but to date, and over many years of discussion, these requests have not been accepted. Under the circumstances, my colleagues and I felt it necessary to take this step after careful consultation on campus and across the country.

Tom Traves
President
Dalhousie University

August 14, 2006
 
Mr. Tony Keller
Managing Editor, Special Projects
MacleanÕs
11th floor
One Mount Pleasant Road
Toronto, ON  M4Y 2Y5

Dear Mr. Keller:

We regret to advise you that our universities will not be participating in the 2006 MacleanÕs questionnaire.  

We share MacleanÕs goal of providing good information for students and their families who are researching post-secondary education.  We also compliment you on your editorial coverage of the post-secondary sector.  Many of the articles in Maclean's have contributed to the national discussion about post secondary education, and have helped to frame studentsÕ choices.   Our concern relates specifically to Maclean's attempts to generate a global ranking of Canadian universities.

In various ways and for some years, many institutional spokespersons have expressed considerable reservations about the methodology used in the MacleanÕs university survey and the validity of some of the measures used.  Thus far, these serious concerns have gone largely unaddressed, and there is still no evidence that MacleanÕs intends to respond to them. 

We welcome public assessment of our work, and all our institutions devote significant resources to that end.  We already publish a great deal of data about our own institutions on-line and intend to publish more in future, ideally in the form of standardized datasets that will facilitate valid temporal and institutional comparisons.  However, it is truly hard for us to justify the investment of public funds required to generate customized data for your survey when those data are compiled in ways that we regard as over-simplified and arbitrary. 

Our concerns about MacleanÕs misuse of data in its rankings issue can be briefly recapitulated here. 

To begin with, the MacleanÕs rankings aggregate data from a range of variables related to the student body, class sizes, faculty, finances, library and reputation.  It is inappropriate to aggregate information across a range of programs at a large and multi-dimensional research university into a single ranking number. Consider how such an approach might pervert oneÕs understanding of a general hospital that is ranked #1 in obstetrics and #10 in cancer care. Averaging these rankings would result in this hospital being ranked Ò#5 overall”. For the patient seeking care in one of these areas, such a measure would be useless at best and misleading at worst. This is, effectively, the method that MacleanÕs applies to Canadian universities by its calculation of Òleague tables” based on the arbitrary assignment of weights to variables which, by themselves, are of questionable validity.  The variables selected by MacleanÕs also fail to capture the breadth of experiences students say are important in their university education such as, for example, extra-curricular activities or the opportunity for rich and diverse interactions with peers and faculty outside the classroom.

We are also concerned by MacleanÕs recent attempt to draw comparisons of student experience across incomparable surveys of student engagement, and Maclean's reliance on survey data with low response rates and all the associated response biases that arise from skewed profiles of respondents.  The responsible compilation and comparison of data is a core tenet of academic research. Several universities already show student survey data, in context, on their own web sites and question Maclean's decision to pull different kinds of data out of context and compare Òapples and oranges”. MacleanÕs treatment of these survey data, in our view, fails to give appropriate notice to these methodological limitations.

It is not just the MacleanÕs student survey that has suffered from low response rates.  Equally troubling is the fact that a clear majority of individuals who receive the Maclean's reputational survey do not respond.  This is a particular concern as the results of the reputational survey not only affect rankings in a significant way, but are given prominence separately by your magazine.

This is only a partial accounting of the methodological flaws in the MacleanÕs rankings.  In short, the ranking methodology used by MacleanÕs is oversimplified and arbitrary.  We do find it ironic that universities are being asked to subsidize and legitimize this flawed methodology, when many faculty, staff and students at our institutions are dedicated in their research to ensuring that data are collected rigorously and analyzed meticulously.

We remain open to the possibility of collaborating with MacleanÕs at some future date, particularly if we can agree on means to ensure that the data will be valid and the analyses truly informative.  Meanwhile, we will continue to publish data on our websites to facilitate informed student and family choice. 
 
Yours truly,

Tom Traves, Dalhousie University
Peter George, McMaster University
Michael Stevenson, Simon Fraser University
Indira Samarasekera, University of Alberta
Stephen Toope, University of British Columbia
Harvey Weingarten, University of Calgary
William Cade, University of Lethbridge
Emoke Szathmary, University of Manitoba
Luc Vinet, University of Montreal
Gilles Patry, University of Ottawa
David Naylor, University of Toronto

Readers Say

YES !

Magazine bad as some Stu. Evaluations:, "...needs more
lipstick."

1. Parents / students NOT guided.

2. crucial for solid transfer-credit protocols


PRIVILEGED Dalhousie retiree,
Dr. Dennis M. Farrell,
Composer, ret.

PS.
a) Watch Magazine "polarize" signatories vs. non signatories
b) --draft NOW some NON-crisis-oriented response to
subsequent (derivative) local articles,
c), BIAS-CHECK: at which non-Dal univ. most of our LOCAL
Media people attended?

d
I notice that Queens and McGill (Often ranked near or at the top) did not pull out of the survey.
Congratulations on a wonderful letter and position! It is long
overdue - the Macleans ranking is highly biased to the point that is
misleading and would likely lead to poor investment decisions by
governments and students.
I would like to congratulate our president, Dr Traves, and the other presidents for taking action regarding the Maclean's surveys. The points our president and others make about the survey are ecellent and accurate.

In my view, accurate and scientifically comparable information is of utmost importance for those considering Dalhousie and other Canadian Universities.

Here, here and Cheers for the letter, the action, and the collaboration!!!
What is the reason for a preponderance of other universities in continuing to partake in the Maclean's survey?
Very good idea. Thanks for looking out for the reputation of Dalhousie!
I applaud the letter and the collective need to uphold our right to be represented legitimately regardless of the results of rigorous research. This is not a case of sour grapes since each and every university listed on the letter can boast attributes for which there is reason to be immensely proud. This is a stand for methodological integrity.
It is about time that Canadian Universities banded together to confront Maclean's Magazine on this issue. I am only surprised that more Universities are not signatories to this letter. However, this does leave a void. As flawed as it is, the Maclean's survey does serve a purpose, perhaps these Universities would cooperate in putting out a national publication on post secondary education, identifying the opportunities available for those who recognise the benefits of a good education.
Why not publish better measures of the quality of a university and its specific programs for prospective students. Three of importance: 1. Number of tenured faculty teaching undergraduate courses, especially first year. 2. How teaching is evaluated beyond student surveys. 3. How grade inflation is avoided by a university. All can add to the quality and integrity of a university and provide both guantitative and qualitative considerations for comparison.
Bravo! This is an important first strike against the pandering to the lowest common denominator, hyperconsumerist, "marketing-speak" approach to university education that is becoming rampant throughout Canada. This letter gives me hope that the academy may have some dignity and standards left in it yet. Now let's see what we can do about our marketing campaigns...
Good for you! Non-violent protest is alive and well. Love the hospital analogy. I hate that M asks undergrads to rate their experience, when vast majority have nothing to compare it to - only been to one school! Whats being measuried is the diff between undergrad's expectations of a school and their experience not a comparison between schools
Why not ask grad students - more likely to have attended more than one university to approach the idea of comparability.
I agree with your decision, if i would have looked at Mcleans chart, maybe i wouldn't have applied for Dal, I feel joinning Dal is one of the best things i have ever done. I love the small classes, understanding profs and the small country town feeling of Halifax.
Mr. Traves & other presidents,

I sincerely appreciate the circulation and care put into this letter. Thank you Tom Traves for standing up for our university and initiating such a letter that includes other reputable schools as well.

Thank you to all the presidents who signed this letter and I encourage you to solicit other universities to do the same.

Respectfully,
John-Mark D. Dawson
Can a University be defined by a single number showing ranking? Can a student be defined by his SAT score or grade point average?

Dave Grimshire
Technician
Health and Human Performance
494-2012
I am in absolute agreement with many of these statements. I have had serious discussions with many people about the same issue (in terms of generalizing things that simply cannot be generalized). Upon reading the headline of this article, I made an assumption that only Universities that got poorly rated would participated / sign this letter. It is nice to see institutions such as U of T, UBC and Dal agreeing on the issue. I look forward to hearing more about the issue and also McLeans response.
Hi, I just wanted to say I agree with a lot of things stated in the letter. It is good that Maclean's Magazine does have a lot of coverage of post-secondary information, but their ranking system needs some work. I am a recent graduate of biochemistry and molecular biology and about to start my master's degree in the same field and although DAL is often not ranked number one, I feel that the education I have recieved here IS top notch. I would write more but I'm nearing my 500 character limit.
In my opinion the Maclean’s survey has been a motivator for improvement and Dr. Traves recognizes this fact(November 28, 2005 Senate)stating “The surveys have helped to demonstrate that we need a push to improve and force us to ask ourselves what we can do to improve in many different quarters of the university.” Some of the best minds are employed by the universities and I would challenge them to develop an evaluation method, in concert with Maclean’s that works for all!
As an IE student I understand the difficulty in trying to create a method to objectively evaluate a subjective area. The ranking is a great idea, I'm sure that many students and their families have based decisions on it. I hope that Dalhousie will work with the other universities to develop a better ranking method and present it to MacLean's. I'm sure that professors and students from all departments at Dal would gladly work together on this methodology.
Bravo. Even if the Maclean's rankings were a reliable indicator of standing (which they are not), the differences are so small, that undergraduates, to whom they are chiefly directed, will be able to get essentially the same education wherever they go. This is the main news conveyed by the Maclean's survey. Unfortunately, this is not well-understood by consumers, and the negative effects of this on Dalhousie's intake of students, and on prospective satudents themselves has been significant.
What I've always found frustrating with MacLean's survey is how it lumps all departments and fields together in an overall ranking, placing particular emphasis on medical, business and law programs. Of course these programs are important, but they are not what the majority of students pursue. If information regarding specific faculties and departments was listed it is possible that the survey might actually serve a purpose, other than the back-slappery of the elite.
This annual competitive study makes me wonder if MacLeans primary goal was to sell copies or to represent the respected universities properly.
I Do NOT feel it is ethical for a magazine to put so much emphasis on some aspects of research while neglecting others to make a ranking that is clearly conditional to the person reading it.
I will look forward to a future collaboration in which the universities and MacLeans can possibly create a study without the obscure ratings.
While I agree that there is a certain level of bias in the MacLean's ranking scheme, I also feel that it does serve a purpose. I'm sure many of these universities are withdrawing from this survey simply because they did not score highly, and feel that potential students will be deterred from applying to their institution.
I disagree with this move strongly, despite understanding the
reasons outlined in the letter. While I agree that the rankings are
very misleading, I think students approach the Maclean's
university issue with an understanding that such a variety of
institutions cannot reasonably be compared. The Maclean's
coverage of this has become hugely important as a non-
university source of information on post-secondary studies... it
would be a loss for Dalhousie and these other schools to pull
out.
Congratulations on finally taking a stance against such an misleading and harmful method of comparison!!! I applaud all the Presidents who have come together to support this letter and could not imagine the reasoning behind those who have yet to sign their names.

-Bonnie Skinner
BSc NESC
Dalhousie University
Class'05
Outstanding. It's nice to see these academic institutions reaffirming a concern both students and parents have had for a long time.
Macleans needs to find a better ranking system,but thats about it.I Know for a fact that a lot of students base their decision to attend these universities on this ranking system, and I bet if dal or any of these universities were listed in the top 10 they wouldn't be involved with this letter.STFX has been #1 for about 4 years now, I went there for two and a lot of students from ontario and out west who didn't even know about stfx based their decision to go to stfx because of that ranking.
Dear Mr. Traves,

I cannot believe the time you are wasting pondering the validity of a single magazines ranking. Do you not realize what type of institution you are running? A University is an institution where people are graded constantly. Grading, ranking and comparing are facts of life, and something people must live with, no matter how fair or unfair they may be. Using your own example, let's say you were studying Macroeconomics. A student may know Keynes Methodology fluently and not even be aware of the Philips Curve doctrine. If a student were to receive a final exam containing mostly Keynes Methodology (which happens often) their grade would be completely skewed compared to the amount of knowledge the student has of the subject as a whole. I think this is a publicity stunt made to purvey that Universities are held at a higher esteem than any other industry. This further perpetuates the pretentious stereotype that you need a degree to be worth something. Please take the ranking for what it is worth and what it is intended to be, food for thought. These rankings are meant as a conversation topic and to incite debate. Please spend your time trying to better Dalhousie and not defending itself against something with little meaning.

Regards,

Ian Roden
"Grading, ranking and comparing are facts of life, and something people must live with, no matter how fair or unfair they may be."
Sorry Ian but I have to disagree. When did numbers without context become fact? We in the technopoly and university 'industry' are bombarded by numerical analysis, grading, and statistics that have little to do with reality. And I would not be surprised if the university uses and abuses similar techniques for the sake of Efficiency and speed.
Example: Why pay a foreign company to market Dal? How was that decided? An opportunity cost graph? Why not approach students/faculty/staff, hold an open seminar to decide how funds are allocated, as a community... how far-fetched is that?]
This is a step in the right direction. These polls, rankings, flawed methodologies are potentially misleading- they tend to be swallowed by an uninformed public or political figures that spew the spin into social policy.
can anyone say censorship? maybe dal should put some time and
effort into getting it's tuition fees lowered than worrying about a
bad mark from a magazine.
Critical analysis of any programme is important for continuing improvement. That said, the methodology should be thorough and valid. More importantly, the limitations and bias should be transparent and should avoid "averaging" of unrelated programmes.

MacLean's rankings are motivated by money. The issue is a good seller and clearly succeeded from the similarly popular US News' rankings. But what's good for the goose is not always so for the gander; particularly when talking of Canada geese.
Maclean's rankings have previously shadowed Dal's academic standards and reputation in a diverse range of fields. A serious number of students would easily base their choice of university by a simple ranking or 'survey'. As an international student, I have learnt that the Maclean's rankings were seriously misleading after attending Dalhousie University.
wouldn't this throw a shadow on Canadian universities? can the above signed universities agree on a ranking substitute? or is the absence of ranking preferable specially in some programs?
is it not a better ranking to determine outcomes of the experience..what are the grads up to today? what were they able to make of their degree...how much do they make? are they happy in career etc...McLeans has often been biased in their content..so it should not be a surprise re:survey!

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