Rating our own professors
By Ryan McNutt - April 30, 2010
![]() |
(Bruce Bottomley Photo) |
Big changes are coming to Dalhousie course evaluations –most notably that students will be able to see the results forthemselves.
After months of consultations across the university, Senate hasapproved a policy statement for student ratings of instruction,mandating that:
- they will be undertaken in all applicable universitycourses;
- they will include a set of common questions (along withcustomizable questions set by individual professors, departmentsand programs);
- the summary results to those common questions are to be madeavailable to students.
In practice, this will mean that starting in September 2011, allDalhousie course evaluations will include a common series ofquestions about teaching concepts such as communication,organization and engagement with students. Students will then beable to access the summary results of this section – notthe individual comments – through a secure website, providedthe professor has chosen to release the information.
Students welcome change
The Dalhousie Student Union, which has been pushing for studentaccess to student ratings of instruction data for years,considers the move a big step forward for both accountability andadds validity to the course evaluation process.
“What we wanted was something that would help studentslearn more about their professors’ strengths and weaknesses,and give the process of course evaluations more credibility,”says Shannon Zimmerman, outgoing DSU president. “Manystudents don’t give enough attention to filling them outbecause they don’t know what happens to that data.”
Alan Shaver, Dalhousie’s vice-president academic, haschampioned the change, admitting he was surprised Dalhousiedidn’t have such a system when he arrived four years ago. AtMcGill, where he taught for two decades, students have had accessto course evaluation data for years.
“When the students brought the concern to us, we did thedue diligence of benchmarking,” he explains. “What dothe other major research schools do? How do they implement such asystem? As we consulted with our stakeholders, we also saw howdifferent the evaluations were in different programs at Dalhousie.So before we could address making the data available to students,we had to take a step back and create a policy that wouldstandardize some of that data.”
A point of debate
Though the principles of the new evaluation system have beenapproved by Senate, there are still a lot of questions left toanswer and many months of consultations left to come.
“What Senate has approved at this point isreally the policy statement,” explains Susan Spence Wach,associate vice-president academic and the university’spoint-person on the project. “Now we have to figure out howto implement it. It's an important foundation from which we canwork through the details with further consultation.”
Already, the process is leading to some anxiety on campus. Dr.Shaver acknowledges the change has been the subject of significantinternal debate. “In some faculties, it was treated as a slamdunk,” he says. “In others, there were seriousreservations.”
Some of those reservations are being voiced publicly. CUPErepresents part-time faculty, teaching assistants and markers atDalhousie and is challenging the university on the issue, sayingthat course evaluations need to be decided at the bargainingtable.
“We would never agree to this because of privacy concernsand conflict of interest concerns; are the students going to haveto disclose their names, their motivations, their efforts andgrades?” asked Barb Moore, president of Local 3912 in arelease.
Ms. Spence Wach explains that while not all the details havebeen finalized, some broad principles have been established. Forone, students will only have access to the summarized statisticaldata on the common questions – not the completeevaluation. She also says the system will be opt-in –professors will have the option to agree to have theirsummary data accessible to students.
Will it work?
That part of the process – the opt-in – begs thequestion of whether enough professors will choose to make theircourse evaluation data accessible to students forthe system to be viable.
“There are some faculties and faculty members that haveconcerns or reservations about this system,” says Ms. SpenceWach. “The opt-in respects that while also respecting ourcollective agreements. That said, at other universities we’velooked at with a similar system, it appears to have broad facultysupport. We have excellent professors here, so based on thefeedback thus far I’m optimistic that this will beembraced.”
Several other questions need to be answered as the newevaluation system moves forward through the next stage ofconsultations: How to review courses taught by multiple professors,such as those in the Environment, Sustainability and Societyprogram? Should new faculty be given an exemption from the system,giving them room to learn without having their evaluationsavailable to students? Will the course evaluationitself move online at some point in the future? How will thedata reflect classes with a small sample size? How exactly will theopt-in process work?
These are hurdles other universities have cleared: Dr. Shavernotes a majority of Canada’s research-intensive universitiescurrently have some sort of student-accessible courseevaluations.
“There are universities in Canada that have been doingthis for a long time,” he says. “Has it undermined theeducation system in those great schools? No. We’re not thefirst to think of this.”
More importantly, he says the process of working with thefaculties to implement this system places increased attentionon the value of teaching.
“I hope it achieves a greater buy-in from students in thecourse evaluation process. I hope it achieves a greaterunderstanding at the university as to what course evaluations are,and what they are not. And I hope it helps students choose theircourses.”
Twitter
Readers Say
May 2, 2010 10:32 AM
Besides, conscientious teachers already twist themselves into pretzels angsting over student critique; how will this actually improve teaching?
May 3, 2010 9:49 AM
May 3, 2010 10:24 AM
May 3, 2010 10:44 AM
May 3, 2010 10:51 AM
Nearly all of the article is devoted to the views of those in favour of the new policy. The 1,000 word article devotes less than 80 words to the opposing viewpoint and contains only one direct quotation from a person against the new policy.
If Dalnews wants to run stories on debates within the university, then it has an ethical obligation to present a balanced perspective that pays adequate attention to both sides of the issue. As it stands, this story is little more than a press release from the university administration.
May 3, 2010 11:00 AM
However, the wise ‘powers that be’ could initiate the system with N=4, or 5, or 6 or more, based on all the previous student reviews already on file. Why are they not being used to good effect and to inform? Were those previous annual reviews meaningless? There is something odd here that does not add up.
May 3, 2010 11:23 AM
May 3, 2010 11:40 AM
There are excellent professors at Dalhousie University and they should be commended for their great work.
This new policy will also give students a credible source to use when selecting professors for larger classes.
May 3, 2010 11:47 AM
May 3, 2010 12:44 PM
The flaw in the practice as described is that faculty members have the ability to opt in. It would seem that those with good evaluations would have less to hide, and those with perennial low rankings would have little incentive to engage.
Good intentions, but unless mandatory, I fear it will be much ado over nothing.
May 3, 2010 1:15 PM
I fear this will go the way of the published salaries of dal employees (Fac/Staff) above 50K per annum (which was posted on-line a few years ago, but was removed and is available with a valid reason and a formal written request through HR).
If it doesn't work in the big promotional scheme (spin), it won't be made public).
May 3, 2010 2:30 PM
May 3, 2010 2:42 PM
May 3, 2010 4:31 PM
Do you really think your fellow students' views on a professor are worth all that much, enough to determine, as our Provost seems to hope, whether you take a course or not?
Let's be frank. Aside from the excellent comments made by Professor Campbell and others below, the truth is that bad professors (incompetent scholars and/or teachers) are obvious to everyone in any self-respecting university; departments and Faculties stuck with them (once they have tenure) have themselves to blame because there are ample means in place preventing their on-going presence here (eg, the tenure process). That is why there are far far fewer of those around than the Administration is implying by this initiative. Any self-respecting university has ample means in place already to ensure the quality of its faculty.
If you really are concerned about the quality of your education, petition the administration to stop wasting time and money on initiatives like this (which wrong-headed on many grounds), and get them invest in things that really help a good university education, like hiring enough professors to ensure decent class sizes. This starts by downsizing bloated administrations that have endless time to pursue such foolishness.
May 3, 2010 5:30 PM
Dalhousie (like others) strings part time professors along. They work on pathetic wages, few benefits, and day jobs for years, hoping that someone might give them tenure. Some lose their contract, or throw in the towel and leave academia for better paying work. No wonder they're worried and skeptical.
To be effective, Dal needs a process where they can take profs to task for clearly sub par work. They should recognize the good and stellar profs. They should also ultimately grant part time profs tenure who have enough merit and experience.
May 3, 2010 5:53 PM
First of all, Dalhousie's track record of listening to student issues and requests is one that leaves a lot to be desired.
Second, if a professor who is on tenure (one of the most over rated aspects of University lore) and they get a bad rating, what is Dalhousie going to do? Well, I'm going to save you the pain of thinking and tell you...NOTHING! It is a useless cause!
May 3, 2010 7:57 PM
Would-be students want information on which to base their choices. This is about transparency and quality assurance.
May 3, 2010 8:22 PM
May 3, 2010 8:23 PM
At a time when faculties are being asked to make huge budget cuts and do more with less, this is one of the most ridiculous initiatives I can think of to be spending money on. If students are going to complain about how much money they pay, they ought to be lobbying the administration to spend money in ways that enhances their education - a good start would be to cut a bunch of the administration! We could hire a lot more good faculty and make class sizes smaller with all the money being wasted on a top-heavy administration.
This is just one more slap in the face to most faculty how already bend over backwards to please their consumer-students. More people should realize that most students only sign their comments if they have something to complain about, so the majority of feedback which is really positive can't be used for any meaningful purpose - other than a slight shot at saving our sanity!
May 4, 2010 10:22 AM
There are many good, but also many terrible professors in any undergrad program. However in a bigger faculty, you can dodge them by simply selecting a different professor for the same class/curriculum. However in a smaller undergrad program like in engineering, you cannot avoid the "terrible" professor since there is only that one professor that can teach that class, or the number of students simply don't allow for more professors to teach the class.
I think this will be useless for engineering students, it will just tell you whether to learn the class material on your own, or actually show up to class.
I think the money invested in this program could be better spent for teaching professors how to teach, and present information so that students can get more out of their education.
May 4, 2010 10:43 AM
Do the professors and staff get a public forum where we can rate the performance of our administrators? I'd sure like to see that.
If job evaluations are going to be publicly available, let's make them publicly available for ALL university-funded positions, from janitors to the President.
May 4, 2010 3:08 PM
May 4, 2010 10:07 PM
I appreciate the ideas you have put forward. In the same league, I would also like to see the past grades in all courses for all my new students. Honestly, it will be of great help, as it would allow me to see the strengths and weaknesses of my students and help me design my pedagogy for each individual accordingly. By the same logic used for public SRI, knowing all past grades of students would greatly boast the quality of teaching. by the way, when are we starting mandatory courses in Politics and Public Relationing for faculty members or may be some university-wide directive recommending A+ for all students would be helpful.
Happy politics/public relationing and good bye education.
May 4, 2010 10:46 PM
As a proud Dalhousie graduate, I know that I may have learned the most from professors I did not particularly like. That is, I am happy to admit that my most memorable learning experiences came from those profs who dared to cajole, harangue, and provoke students -- rather than (as Dal admin would have it) merely pander to a shameful consumerist ethos in fear that students' educational dollars might be taken elsewhere. Let them, I say.
So, hear, hear, to Campbell et al. who have the backbone to question the inanity of Dal's higher admin. Kudos to you, and phhtt to all those students who would rather be amused and entertained than educated.
Oh, and -- please -- are we supposed to be persuaded that something is good simply because McGill has been doing it for umpteen years? Sheesh.
May 5, 2010 10:11 AM
May 5, 2010 2:03 PM
Like it or not, profs are in the customer service business. That's known before they ever get into it. Just like people who work in grocery stores and at restaurants, you have to deal with some upset and unreasonable people. Don't brand them all bad because of a few.
I would focus my efforts towards thoughtful dialogue with senior administration, instead of the people who largely fund this little ol place. Additionally, without them, other sources of funding would stop coming in as well.
Happy whining.
May 5, 2010 2:06 PM
May 6, 2010 2:17 AM
It's not just about getting an A, its about learning properly, and having the OPPORTUNITY to get an A if the effort is put forth. The quality of the professor is so critical, not just for the final mark, but for triggering future interest in the subject. For example, though I did well, I had a terrible accounting professor who talked about current events all class, so I needed to teach myself the curriculum through a ton of studying. This turned me off of the subject, and I like to think had I known in advance about the poor quality of the teacher, maybe I could have avoided him and things would be different.
Professors afraid of this new policy are likely the ones who get bad reviews because they are bad teachers. Professors who are good teachers have nothing to fear, as this new policy will just help further expose those who are weak at teaching.
May 6, 2010 9:36 AM
A professor of mine in Beirut used to repeat that a campus is about faculty members, students and libraries. I wish the resources put into this rating issue were invested in purchasing more books that students badly need on campus, and also perhaps get students some better food to eat while studying at Dal.
May 6, 2010 10:02 AM
I ask the community this. Ask students if they have used Rate My Prof, and ask if they have found it somewhat accurate.
I have checked this site out, and having known numerous faculty in Science/Engineering, the comments have been "Bang On". Generally speaking Students are honest in their opinions, whether we agree or not is a another debate.
Faculty should address their fears, as I suspect they do not trust the Admin folks as it may be linked to their Merit Increases, Tenure and "Professorial Rise Through the Ranks" promotions.
I particularly like the earlier comment about have all Dal Employees (regardless of position and rank) submitting to the rigors of "Public Reviews" and "Public Performance Reviews". Perhaps only then will Dal be able to float the deadwood.
May 6, 2010 8:49 PM
2. Whether student ratings are available through Dal or not is essentially moot. Students talk. Prior to taking any class, most students discuss the course and prof and determine its value informally, anyway. Dal can take charge and provide answers to fair questions or leave it to the 'popularity contest' that already occurs.
3. The particular questions asked by the student rating questionnaires are too general to result in meaningful feedback. Questions should be direct and relate specifically to instructional factors that impact course satisfaction (i.e. 'constructive criticism'). Further, questions regarding rate of class attendance and expected course grades would eliminate the doubt of credibility in students' opinions.
Example:
- Did the professor's explanations add value beyond those of the textbook?
- Did you largely teach yourself the material?
- Were lectures organized clearly? (i.e. was it clear what you had to know?)
- Was feedback on essays/projects unambiguous in regards to opportunities for improvement?
- How similar was the difficulty of exams/assignments with your expectations?
- Did the physical classroom environment adversely impact your learning?
4. If this cannot be done within the compressed 10 minute in-class evaluations, perhaps an online survey on BLS/OWL can be done at the students' leisure over the final week of classes. This would result in more meaningful written comments also (rather than rushing students already late for the next class).
May 6, 2010 11:32 PM
May 7, 2010 6:17 PM
The problem with informal ratings of teaching performance suffer from the same concerns:
1) They are not necessarily reliable (in the statistical sense - that is, if the same student filled out the same survey for the same prof at different times in the same year or across different years, the numbers wouldn't necessarily come out the same).
2) They have no proven predictive validity (do high ratings of teacher effectiveness predict - statistically - student outcomes in the short AND the long-term?). And,
3) They have no proven construct validity (they purport to measure the quality of a teacher but may, in fact, measure popularity rather than teaching effectiveness/skill/ability).
We teach and learn about these concepts for a reason: Because we should be sensitive to problems of measurement and interpretation.
May 7, 2010 6:47 PM
I am like almost everyone in feeling uncomfortable about being rated, by students or anyone else. Yet I see the point in both improvement of teaching, and giving students a feeling of being more than just silent customers in the university.
University of Toronto had such a system when I taught there from 1968 to 1975, and faculty concerns were much the same. In fact, though, it worked pretty well and no one suffered irreparable damage.
Let's talk about this calmly.
May 7, 2010 7:06 PM
After reading some comments I quickly thought about denying I ever agreed with the article. While giving information like this out may sound good, it realistically provides no benefit. If RateMyProf and Dalhousie evaluations haven't made profs up their game, this won't either. The university is riddled with horrible professors who contribute nothing to the educational experience of students and who couldn't care less, because they have tenure. Ask any student in first year stats. I agree that it's nothing more than a bad idea covered up by time and money put into it by the university.
This article seems like nothing more than a press release by a nervous administration who has no intention of taking any of the concerns seriously, but felt the need to give the protestors reason to believe they're being heard.
As a student, I have nothing to lose or gain from this change. My objective opinion is that it should be abolished. The changes to the evaluation are much needed, but publishing the results needs to be an all-or-nothing thing, allowing profs to opt out is only going to cause complaints.
May 7, 2010 7:10 PM
Acadia,3.44
Cape Breton University,3.51
Dalhousie,3.35
McGill,2.89
Mount Allison,3.51
Queens,3.4
St. Francis Xavier,3.46
St. Mary's,3.27
University of British Columbia,3.29
University of Toronto,2.22
May 7, 2010 7:34 PM
Translation: "This could potentially have a negative effect on union member's paycheques and we absolutely, positively cannot have that. Just ask the local CUPE chapter in Toronto about the garbage strike last summer. We don't care about the interests of anyone but ourselves"
May 7, 2010 8:24 PM
I also think that assuming that students will attempt to use this information to find 'easy' courses gives both too little credit to the students and too much credit to the rating questions. I don't see how a 1-5 rating on things like clarity or promptness of marking translates to how easy the course is. Actually, I would hope that the harder courses are taught by the more organized and clear profs.
Student experience is important, especially where there are many options within a faculty. Even for required classes, there is often a choice of different sections. I have taken 'harder' classes to avoid profs that I've had a bad experience with, and I would have liked to have had information about perceived faculty concern for students and clarity of teaching before signing up.
May 8, 2010 8:50 AM
What prof with bad ratings is going to release this information? On a second note it seems to me that individual comments seem just as important as ratings.
Excellent Idea, poor follow through.
May 8, 2010 12:37 PM
Such an inference not only ascribes to the dissenters a high degree of self interest -- assuming, as it does, that such profs must score poorly on evaluations -- but also ignores both their professional obligation to ask critical questions and their oft-iterated commitment to quality education.
Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that those professors who don't care about teaching aren't interested in the debate, either?
May 9, 2010 12:17 AM
- A prof is unlikely to change his/her teaching style based on easily dismissible student comments, especially if they are tenured.
- For any student pursuing a specific concentrated degree or honors degree, there are required classes. Regardless of who the prof is and what their "score" is, you may just have to suck it up and endure bad teaching anyway.
- I loved the comment about Stats 1060 - This course is a prime example. There is very little teaching by the profs and the students pretty much teach themselves and each other on BLS. For three hours a week they listen to tenured profs read off prepared slides in waste of time lectures. Has this been brought to admin's attention? I'm sure it has. Has anything changed? I know it hasn't.
Dalhousie should look to spending money more wisely.
May 9, 2010 2:03 AM
I can understand why some professors might be threatened because some students are satisfied with easier courses and popular teachers. In saying that I recognized that the majority of students attending our university are doing so to gain a high level of knowledge and education.
I was enrolled in a course this year that I was originally extremely excited about the subject matter. It was a smaller class which was going to provide a great chance for learning. On the first day I met the prof I thought they were a fantastic person, great attitude, positive and fun to be around. While thinking this about the person, I can honestly say that the reason class attendance was so low within weeks was the complete and utter lack of ability to teach.
Given the opportunity to talk over coffee Im sure could understand while this person was so well liked, but ask the majority of students who have taken their classes, it is impossible to gain knowledge. What I learned is to not expect faculty support, that i have to teach myself and that I have a fantastic text book. Thats it. I am not saying this because I didnt like the professor,I'm not saying it because I did poorly in the class, I received an A.
My personal experience with the evaluation process in this class included the professor staying in the room and collecting the evaluations. If you want to talk about the reasons why students don't give proper evaluations you might think about the way to make sure students can evaluate more honestly. Teaching style has a huge impact on the level of education I can receive. If I can't learn anything, why would I come?
May 9, 2010 10:35 AM
I have myself benefitted from having good teaching evaluations; however, I have grave reservations about their use as a tool by the administration - Dr. Hankey's comments about trusting to insight are relevant here.
If students are really intended to use previous students' comments to help choose their courses, especially in the humanities, the statistical data beloved by so many administrators is the wrong format: it has to be much more open-ended. As a student, I wanted to know which professors were the most inspiring, who seemed to have the greatest depth of thought, a real passion for ideas; who was eccentric but thought-provoking, outrageous and challenging; who could communicate to me new ways of seeing. Sometimes those same teachers set impossibly frustrating tests, handed my work back very late, deeply offended cherished ideas I had, and were not endlessly available to their students. Sometimes they were difficult people, and sometimes many of their students resented them. But these were the kind of 'inspiring minds' I came to university for.
Instead of RATINGS there should be descriptive, qualitative commentary. Ratings implies rankings - we don't need rankings. The work of the university, at least in the humanities, is not so 'pigeonholable'; sometimes students have to acquire large amounts of technical information, and other times they need to encounter radically different approaches to the world. We need good, clear courses and caring professors, but I'd also want room for the diversity of experience as well and fear these 'measurements' work against that.
May 9, 2010 11:27 AM
Nope, they are not in the customer service business. Not the good ones. They are mentors, aiding students on the path to clear thinking. You cannot buy or sell thinking (unlike, say, groceries); but if you get close enough to it, pay attention, and emulate it, you might just learn how.
Oh, and because they are mentors, learning to think has everything to do with having a productive and rewarding relationship. That is why I've informally 'interviewed' nearly every professor I've worked with for the past seven years. If students want to know whether they will (probably) learn from a particular professor, they should go and meet him or her before hand. However, if they're at school simply for the grades or even just the degree, then having a good prof is beside the point anyway and rating is unnecessary.
May 9, 2010 6:40 PM
May 9, 2010 9:45 PM
May 10, 2010 11:09 AM
Others talked to students who had taken the course. Comments were taken in context and came from an identifiable source. For my part I took 8:30 classes believing any prof prepared to teach that early had to be dedicated.
May 16, 2010 11:33 PM
Bonk, C. J., Wisher, R. A., & Champagne, M. V. (2007)
Toward a comprehensive model of e-learning evaluation: The components. In B. H. Khan (Ed.), Flexible learning in an information society (pp. 258-269). Hershey, PA: The Idea Group, Inc.
Sachs, D. & Champagne, M.V. (2005)
Better Information: Embedded Assessment in the NACTEL Program. In Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology.
Champagne, M.V. (2003)
Embedded assessment: An evaluation tool for Web-based learning environments. In T. Duffy and J. Kirkley (Eds.), Learner Centered Theory and Practice in Distance Education: Case Studies. Erlbaum, NJ.
January 6, 2011 9:57 AM
January 6, 2011 5:37 PM
Profs cannot provide us with the quality of education we seek as 'academics' if they are expected to constantly lower their expectations in order to accomodate student/consumer 'needs' (outside, of course, those with actual special needs). In my opinion, a degree is something that is earned. The idea of 'purchasing' a degree cheapens the whole experience of becoming trained in a discipline. If profs followed what some of these vocal student/consumers want/suggest, they would be teaching neat little units and assigning 20 pages of reading a week. I am of the opinion that the inquiries many of us are engaging with simply cannot be summarized in such a short unit, nor do I think our mastery of them be accepted by completing one. The world is a messy place, and learning to deconstruct/reconstruct our opinions/interpretations of it is a painful, long and messy process that, to be honest, I don't think many people actually in university today are willing to go through. People want easy answers, easy degrees, and easy money.
Student/consumer, when will you realize that in the end, all of this will hurt you and your capacity to be successful in the real world? Will it be day one of your first 'real' job when you're thrown into a real world situation and think, 'damn, why didn't the prof talk about this?'.
I'll give you your answer - it's because 'this' didn't fit within a 20 page reading, nor could it be bound within a single learning unit.
July 7, 2011 9:18 PM
Also, what does the students marks have to do with whether their evaluation has any credibility. If the low marks were due to the professor not teaching a subject well, then that is the only thing that matters. A good prof will always get good reviews more often than not, and a bad prof will always get bad reviews more often than not. The average rating will speak for itself, rather than a few disgruntled troublemakers.
I think most students just want accountability for the teaching that goes on. They pay a lot for their education and just want to get their moneys worth, and I don't mean buying a grade. I mean really learning. Without some criteria that can be seen by the general public, how can there be?